As I read through Martin Luther’s Table Talk, I’m constantly strolling across one gem after another. From his wit to his wisdom, Luther is just as much a mentor as he is the entertainment. I found the section titled, “Of Preachers and Preaching,” chocked full of relevance for the modern day pastor in training or the one who is already at work. I thought that I’d sample some of my favorite portions for you. Hopefully through them, Luther will be a voice of truth for anyone who desires to shepherd a flock or preach the Word of God. Many of his comments find immediate relevance for today’s preachers. Though you don’t have to agree with everything Luther posits, it is still in your best interest to hear him out, for as Philip Melancthon and Justus Jonas testified, “Luther is old enough, and knows how and what to preach (282, #426).”

“I would not have preachers torment their hearers, and detain them with long and tedious preaching, for the delight of hearing vanishes therewith, and the preachers hurt themselves.” ~ pg. 272, #396.

“A preacher ought to remain by the text, and deliver that which he has before him, to the end people may well understand it.” ~ pg. 274, #402

“A preacher must be both soldier and shepherd. He must nourish, defend, and teach; he must have teeth in his mouth, and be able to bite and to fight.” ~ pg. 274, #403

“A preacher should needs know how to make a right difference between sinner, between the impenitent and confident, and the sorrowful and penitent; otherwise the whole Scripture is locked up.” pg. 275, #406

“To speak deliberately and slowly best becomes a preacher; for thereby he may the more effectually and impressively deliver his sermon.” ~ pg. 276, #408

“I would not have preachers in their sermons use Hebrew, Greek, or foreign languages, for in the church we ought to speak as we used to do at home, the plain mother tongue, which every one is acquainted with.” ~ pg. 276, #412

“If I should write of the heavy burden of a godly preacher, which he must carry and endure, as I know by mine own experience, I should scare every man from the office of preaching.” ~ pg. 277, #413

“Preachers must be endued with a great spirit, to serve people in body and soul, in wealth and honour, and yet, nevertheless, suffer and endure the greatest danger and unthankfulness.” ~ pg. 277, #414

“I learn by preaching to know what the world, the flesh, the malice and wickedness of the devil is, all which could not be known before the gospel was revealed and preached.” ~ pg. 281, #425

“Cursed are all preachers that in the church aim at high and hard things, and, neglecting the saving health of the poor unlearned people, seek their own honour and praise, and therewith to please one or two ambitious persons. When I preach, I sink myself deep down. I regard neither Doctors nor Magistrates, of whom are here in this church above forty; but I have an eye to the multitude of young people, children, and servants, of whom are more than two thousand. I preach to those, directing myself to them that have need thereof. Will not the rest hear me?“

“An upright, godly, and true preacher should direct his preaching to the poor, simple sort of people.” ~ pg. 282, #427

“Young divines ought to study Hebrew, to the end they may be able to compare Greek and Hebrew words together, and discern their properties, natures, and strength.” ~ pg. 283, #428

Well, Kim and I made it safe and sound to the Carolinas. Right now we are staying with her parents in Wagener, SC, and later this evening, we are going to be making our way with them to Myrtle Beach where we will be staying til Saturday. Woo hoo! Still, to her family’s amazement, I brought a mini-library with me so that I could keep my reading going. You can never coast. Plus, I don’t want to give Bret Rogers a chance in catching up with me on knocking out books on our Ph. D. reading bibliographies. Nonetheless, I have little time to read what I brought as well as time to blog. But I wanted to squeeze this one in real fast.

I’ve been reading Francis Schaeffer’s third book, Death in the City, which has proved to be just as profound and prophetic as his other works. This was the case before I even reached the chapter that I want to share with you today. In Death in the City, Schaeffer includes chapter 5 which is called, “The Persistence of Compassion.” As I began reading its contents, I was at once touched and ministered to by Schaeffer’s thoughts and encouragement regarding the necessity for a messenger of God (based upon Jeremiah’s situation) to continue in compassion towards those whom God has ordained for his message to reach despite the fact that his words always seem to fall upon deaf ears or that persecution is always what seems to follow obedience to God as his faithful ambassador.

Have you ever been discouraged in doing the Lord’s work? I can testify to this from some very real examples having served in two difficult church positions where I felt like a voice crying in the wilderness. But, although the circumstances are so costly and sometimes can be quite harmful in many different areas of your life such as your health or even your marriage, there is a waking feeling deep down that keeps you coming back for more. Compassion. Love. Brokenness. If you are a believer, then there ought to be an unending reservoir of mercy and compassion in your heart towards those who had not heard nor heeded God’s Word for repentance.

Schaeffer cites Jeremiah 15:10 as an example of a heart discouraged as result of struggling for the Lord among a people who will not turn from their wicked ways, “Woe is me, my mother, that you bore me, a man of strife and contention to the whole land. I have not lent, nore have I borrowed, yet all of them curse me.” In response to Jeremiah’s lament, Schaeffer wrote, “I am glad Jeremiah said that, because I have known discouragement too. And if you are being faithful in your preaching and not just opting out, in a culture like ours you too will experience times of discouragement (82).”

However, don’t misunderstand Schaeffer’s reply. The emphasis is not on the discouragement, but rather that the discouragement is a sign that you are actually waging war for God. The purpose of this chapter is not to validate discouragement in the believer’s life. Instead, what Schaeffer wants to show is that if you can’t identify with Jeremiah’s lament as a prophet of God, there’s a good sign that maybe you aren’t preaching his Word at all. Schaeffer goes on to share,

And you say, how can a man of God be discouraged? Anybody who asks that has never been in the midst of the battle; he understands nothing about real struggle for God. We are real men. We are on this side of the Fall. We are not perfect. We have our dreams, our psychological needs, and we want to be fulfilled. There are times of heroism as we stand firm and are faithful in preaching to men who will not listen. But there are also times when we fell overwhelmed (82).

It is definitely a heroic feeling to resolve as a young preacher that you are going to go to the small churches who have been abandoned for larger church scenes, or that you are going to go overseas where no man has gone before. But it is a much different experience once you have arrived and your story never becomes something worthy of a movie script for the masses. However, God uses the reality of these situations to get our minds and hearts right. We are to preach. We are to herald his coming. We are to call all men everywhere to repent. And these demands have nothing to do with whether or not people will turn and obey. Yet there remains the fact that we still should be looking out over the people with heart-wrenching compassion as we long to see them awake from their blindness and see Jesus Christ, the light of the world. Again Schaeffer adds:

It is possible to be faithful to God, and yet to be overwhelmed with discouragement as we face the world. In fact, if we are never overwhelmed, I wonder if we are fighting the battle with compassion and reality, or whether we are jousting with paper swords against paper windmills (83).

I hope these words have ministered to you in some way. I know that Schaeffer’s admonitions gripped my heart in this chapter, especially in light of having some familiarity with his life and the radical persistence he had in showing compassion to endless amounts of people, never failing to preach God’s Word. It can be hard sometimes. Let’s not try to be super-spiritual and deny this fact. But as ministers of God, we must press on in faith, content in obedience to God’s will, even when we rarely see any fruit from our labors. Ultimately, our peace and satisfaction must be found in him, and we will be quick to find that our joy in him will sustain us when happiness in others is lost.

And what is Schaeffer’s final words to this chapter? “Keep on, keep on, keep on, keep on, and then KEEP ON!”

Last month, I published two posts (Part I and Part II) in response not only to William P. Young’s unorthodox portrayal of the doctrine of the Trinity and the Gospel in his new fiction book The Shack, but even more so in response to the collective shrugging of the shoulders from Christians who dismissed Young’s unacceptable allegorization of the One True God in order to retain and praise his depiction of the Gospel. Thankfully, the book was brought to my attention as soon as it was gaining a lot of popularity from many circles which gave me the opportunity to share with several people inside and outside of the blog. However, the same question continues to spark controversy that, no matter how much I am aware of the theological state of most Christians (with a little help from David Wells and his books), it still leaves me utterly dumbfounded and scratching my head. In some of these discussions and others that I’ve heard about through secondary sources, I have found myself quoting aloud and in my head more than ever the classic words of Cool Hand Luke’s prison warden, “What we have here is a failure to communicate.” The question that keeps rising is, “What in the world does the doctrine of the Trinity have to do with the Gospel?” And I must confess, the reason that I continue to be left speechless is not due to the fact that I have become a stuffy seminary student who sits in his ivory tower doing theology with me, myself, and I. This could not be farther from the truth. In fact, I know that I would have acted with the same level of passion and intensity in response to those who believe that the Gospel and the Trinity are somehow disconnected realities before I had ever taken any of my Christian education courses, whether at seminary or in college.

I grew up with a very high understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity and never thought for a single moment that there could be a Gospel apart from its God. In a similar case, I recall one of my first theologically shocking experiences as a youth pastor in South Carolina when I began teaching a singles, young adults, teenagers sunday school class and was astonished when I mentioned the Trinity and received nothing in return but blank stares. I remember quizzing a twenty-something in the class who had been in church his whole life and yet confessed as to never having heard the word “Trinity”. Since then I have come to realize that his situation was not unique. In fact, it has been all too common. And now, with the impact of The Shack, this truth is becoming clearer.

On my first post, I made it plain where I stood with respect to the necessity of the Trinity for there to any Gospel at all. Later a person submitted a comment who said that he was surprised by the resoluteness of my declaration that there could be no Gospel apart from the doctrine of the Trinity. He posed a set of very thoughtful and honest questions regarding how I came to my position. Here are his questions: (1) What is it about the Trinity that causes it to be so central to the gospel do you think? (2) What do you think the heart of the gospel is if it is so lost apart from the Trinity?

In his message, he said that the best way to respond to him would be via email. So I waited and prayed and wrote him a brief email attempting to answer his questions in a non-confrontational or argumentative manner. I have yet to hear back from him. However, I still want to encourage discussion on this issue. Since his comment on my post, I’ve been asking my friends and even my wife this question, “Why is the Trinity necessary for the Gospel?” And so I want to ask you. How would you answer this question? Can the Gospel of Jesus Christ exist apart from an orthodox view of the Trinity? Can we dispense of this doctrine and all of its complexity and still expect to retain the simplicity of a saving and redeeming Gospel message? What do you think? The purpose of this post is to put the ball back in someone else’s court. I wish to hear what you all think because this issue has been lingering over my head now for a while and I am curious as to what others perceive about it. Through this post, I would hope to start some very healthy and fruitful dialogue about the Trinity and the Gospel. I long for the doctrinal purity of the Church so that we might grow more and more in the knowlege and love of our Savior Jesus Christ. Furthermore, I desire to live under the banner of Francis Schaeffer’s motto, namely, “to give honest answers to honest questions.” How would you reply to these “honest questions”?

Throughout the years, I’ve learned my lesson in saying “never”. Here are some of the things that I’ve said “never” to where the Lord had other plans:

• “I’m never going to college (spoken as a senior in high school).” ~ I went to North Greenville College the fall after my high school graduation.
• “I’m never going to seminary.” ~ I’m a SWBTS student coming up on graduation.
• “I’ll never be a youth pastor again (spoken after I resigned from my position in SC).” ~ I took another youth pastorate as soon as I arrived in Fort Worth 3 years ago.
• “I’ll never marry a red-head.” ~ Kim is a red-head.
• “I’ll never marry a twin.” ~ Kim is a twin.
• “I’ll never have blog.” ~ I’m coming up on my first full year of blogging.

You must know that I was laughing the entire time while typing that list. It’s so funny as you look back on your life and see how God is so faithful to turn your world upside down when you are so bound and determined to do what seems right in your own eyes. Praise God for his unthwartable plan and universal sovereignty.

Building off my last “never” declaration, I want to point you to a post at Desiring God Blog by Abraham Piper called “6 Reasons Pastors Should Blog“. Abraham submits six solid reasons why all pastors should blog. Although it is geared towards pastors, I would say that most of the reasons, if not all, could be persuaive for any Christian, not just pastors. In fact, all six, before there was such a list, were the main motivations that caused me to contradict my “never” statement last May. Here they are in summary:

1. To write
2. To teach
3. To recommend
4. To interact
5. To develop an eye for what is meaningful
6. To be known

Let me comment just briefly on the sixth reason a pastor should blog. Please do not mistake the phrase “to be known” to represent the need for a pastor to reach some level of mass popularity. Instead, “to be known” ought to be understood as a chance to be “real” with your people. Blogging would give the pastor an opportunity to dialogue with his congregation more candidly on issues that may not make it into the pulpit once or twice a week. Via the blog, the pastor could discuss other issues such as his struggles, parenting, what kind of music he listens to, what is he reading, and so forth and so on.

Especially in the SBC, blogging has received a negative reputation due to the overshadowing of its political usages. But, please let me persuade you that there is much more to blogging than lobbying over certain political issues (not that these should necessarily be viewed as inherently negative), whether Baptist-related or not. For me, it has been an incredible opportunity to develop many ideas that I have stored away in my head for some time that have been patiently awaiting a platform where I could freely share them. Moreover, I could list numerous other benefits and blessings that the blogging format has to offer, especially for today’s Christians. But, I don’t have time to do that right now. So, in the meantime, check out Abraham’s list as well as what David Alan Black had to say many months ago in a quote that I have posted here.

Over at the Desiring God Blog, many of the DG staff have submitted their top 3 books for 2007. These books are not necessarily “new” books; the list simply consists of any book, new or old, fiction or non-fiction, that were their favorites for this past year. I was amazed to see the diverse titles and genres mentioned, and was encouraged to see how much and widely their staff was reading.

Ever since the ball dropped in Times Square, I’ve been debating on doing a “best of” list for 2007 in terms of music, books, and movies. But, I’ve tried to resist the temptation to spend most of my posts for January in retrospect. However, I’m always excited and encouraged to see what people are reading and what they would recommend. I am probably the one guy who, when someone seriously recommends a book, goes out and buys it and reads it as soon as possible (disclaimer: this doesn’t happen in every case). 2007 was a great year for Kim and I both in many ways. But, with respect to reading, I’ve probably read more this year than any year past. Furthermore, the reading that I was able to do this year was also the most dynamic. I have probably covered more literary territory, which for the most part was utterly life-changing, than I ever expected to traverse in 2007. Kim as well was able to discover some new areas of reading which was very encouraging for me. She has always been open-minded to my suggestions, though in many cases, my prescribed book of choice did not quite make the cut no matter how sound or profound its content may have been. However, in terms of both fiction and non-fiction, Kim has dug deeper this year and has been rewarded with much gold. I praise God that I have a wife who is always eager to spend the last few hours of daylight on the front porch reading with her husband.

So, we both want to list our top 3 books from 2007 and a brief word of testimony to go with each one. For those of you who are familiar with my blog, just note that my three choices will not include any of the books that I have already placed in the spotlight in a post (i. e. True Spirituality, Preaching Christ in all of Scripture, etc.). Those certain ones go without saying that they have changed my life in considerable ways. Therefore, there’s no need in restating the obvious. Moreover, Kim and I both would love for you all to submit your “top 3″ books of 2007 in the comment(s) section. We are anxious to see what you all reading, and hopefully, your recommendations will give us some new and exciting reading material for 2008.

Kim’s Top 3 Books For 2007

1. The Mark of the Lion Trilogy ~ Francine Rivers – This trilogy was amazing!  It absolutely changed my view of how fiction literature should be written.  With this series, please do not judge the books by their covers.  I was so sad to have this trilogy end.
2.  The Holiness of God ~ R. C. Sproul – The Lord used this book in my life to teach me more about his nature.  I truly began to understand what “holiness” means and how to live a holy life that is glorifying to a holy God.
3. The Horse and His Boy ~ C. S. Lewis – I bought the entire set about three years ago when I first started teaching.  The only book I read prior to buying the set was The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.  While the set was just collecting dust on our bookshelf, I really started to get a child-like excitement about reading them.  I read The Magician’s Nephew in Dec. 2006.  I loved it, but for some reason I waited a year to read The Horse and His Boy, which I finished this Christmas.  I love reading The Chronicles of Narnia.  I also just finished Prince Caspian.  While reading The Horse and His Boy, I was constantly amazed at how C. S. Lewis uses the allegorical device to show so vividly biblical characters, especially Aslan.

Billy’s Top 3 Books For 2007

1.  Surprised by Joy ~ C. S. Lewis - Although I’ve read some of Lewis’ work in the past, 2007 was definitely the year that I truly came to appreciate him. For me, the most amazing part of his autobiography was his careful distinction between his conversion to Theism and his conversion to Christianity. Lewis admits that it is only salvation in Christ that makes him Christian.
2.  Is There A Meaning In This Text? ~ Kevin J. Vanhoozer – Having read a lot of Francis Schaeffer recently, I’ve inevitably crossed paths with deconstructionism and Jacques Derrida. So, it was great to see Vanhoozer interact and respond to his literary methods. Vanhoozer mightily fights for objectivity in language and authorial intention. Part II of the book is well worth the money spent as he carefully articulates the role of the author, the text, and the reader in hermeneutics and interpretation. This book has revolutionized the entirety of my approach to reading any text whether it is the Bible or not. Even so, it has thoroughly equipped me to be a better handler of the Word of truth in ways that I have a hard time remembering how I read the Bible before I read this book.
3.  Introduction to OT Theology: A Canoncial Approach ~ John H. Sailhamer – I’m still hammering (no pun intended) out issues with Sailhamer’s approach not only to the OT, but also to the totality of the Scriptures. I’m in favor of much of his argument, but am still trying to work out the kinks with professors and friends. However, as a whole, his method is incredibly insightful and illuminating, and perhaps could even be called freeing. His chapter on “Text vs. Event” is a must read and reveals the deep-rooted passion of a man who longs to be bound to the Scriptures and who desires to help bind the Church to the Word also.

As you all know, I have been briefly keeping up with the “New Atheist” movement, especially in light of the hype surrounding The Golden Compass and recent articles in Time magazine (Atheist Sunday School). Apologetics has always been one facet of the ministry of which I have been fascinated with, but have never had the time to spend a great deal of study and preparation in. Often, I feel that I have neglected to equip myself to defend the gospel or Christianity, but it’s not too late to push forward more aggressively. As of right now, I’m debating on how much to include apologetic supplimentary readings into my normal regimen. More than likely, I will increase that intake gradually in the coming semester.

This post is intented to simply expose you to a few of the debates that are viewable online for free concerning this issue. These are amazing programs and are just as entertaining as they are informative and prophetic. If you want a crash course in the main issues and arguments concerning the “New Atheist” movement, then you should watch both of these incredibly tantalizing debates/dialogues which I will link for you below.

• Poison or Cure? Religious Belief in the Modern World: (FORA TV) A Debate Between Christopher Hitchens and Alister McGrath – In this program, Hitchens and McGrath discuss the main arguments from Hitchens’ book, God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything. Recorded on October 11, 2007 at Georgetown University in Washington, D. C.
• Debate on D’Souza’s book, “What’s So Great About Christianity?”: Is Christianity the Problem? (CSPAN’s Book TV) D’Souza defends Christianity and Theism based off of arguments taken from reason and creation. D’Souza’s approach for responding to Christopher Hitchens is less theological than McGrath’s, but is only so because of the base level apologetic that D’Souza wishes to demonstrate at how fundamental Christianity really is. In both debates, Hitchens proves to be a formidable opponent. It is obvious from the veracity of his attack on Christianity, and Theism altogether, that Hitchens is not showing up at these events simply for academic pleasure. He is passionate about defeating Christianity and leading the campaign to overthrow it in this world. However, D’Souza does a tremendous job of responding to Hitchens’ claims with a calm and confident demeanor. You would do well to watch both of these programs soon! This event was held in 2007 at The King’s College in New York.

Last month I wrote a post entitled, “We Are Your Books,” in which I shared one of the powerful moments recorded in Michael Card’s book, The Walk, concerning Dr. Bill Lane’s life as he began to transition from his position at Seattle Pacific University and move back to Franklin, Tennesee to spend the final stages of his cancer with family, friends, and familiarity. At a sending off gathering for Dr. Lane, hosted by the students and faculty, one of the students praised Dr. Lane for not taking the time to finish his magnum opus on the life, mission, and theology of the Apostle Paul. The student’s comments were qualified when he continued, stating, “For if you had spent the time required to complete the book on Paul, you would not have had the time to invest in us. . . . We are your books Bill!“

When first writing that post, I intended to follow it up immediately with this one, but to say the least, I have gotten side-tracked and bogged down in other things and issues. However, this idea is still a very heavy one on my heart insofar as it relates to how I view ministry, but also on how I view people in general. I must state at the very beginning a necessary disclaimer: I am for the writing of many books! Furthermore, I hope to contribute to that list one day for my own part. With that being said, I also want to emphasize the great need to invest in people’s lives and make disciples face-to-face and not from a comfortable distance, say for instance, from a blog.

All throughout the Scriptures, God has been near to his people. Take for instance in the OT, God was in the garden, among the Israelites in the wilderness, in the Temple, and so forth and so on. Moreover, all of those examples were intended to point to the time when God would come as the Incarnation and do just as John in his gospel alludes to when he writes, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us . . .  (Jn 1:14a)” The Greek word translated “dwelt”, as many of you know, is an intentional semantic link to the OT word for “tabernacle” or “tent”. In essence, what is being said is that God has taken up residence on earth with his people, in the flesh. Furthermore, we see that as Jesus ascends into heaven, he does not leave us without a promise; we will not be left abandoned by God. In Matt 28:20b, Jesus declares, “And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” But, even more so, we see this point realized in the coming and work of the Holy Spirit. Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, calls the Holy Spirit the “Spirit of Christ” as well as the “Spirit of God,” and does so all in one verse (Rom 8:9). The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is explicit proof that God has not, does not, nor will not only relate to us from a distance. And then, of course, when the end of this age finally arrives, and our cries for “Come Lord Jesus!” are majestically answered, we will experience what the Beloved Disciple records “the voice from the thone” saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God (Rev 21:3).”

If God has been personal and intimate with his people, and intends to be so for an eternity, why should we, his church, fail to make tremendous and enduring impacts on the lives of real people in real relationships. I will be honest, I wish that Dr. Lane had finished his work on Paul. I own his Word Biblical Commentaries (vols. 1 & 2) on the letter to the Hebrews and they are by far my favorite, even before I was aware of his oustanding godly-stature. However, it is a humbling truth to see unfold when something so publicized and prone-to-fame as the writing of a good book can be reduced almost to a non-essential accessory next to pouring your life into another’s for the sake of one’s salvation/sanctification and the glory of God.

The Apostle Paul experienced this situation himself. But I must say, though he had been used as the pen by which God wrote life onto the hearts of many others, he still authored the greater part of our NT including the work which tends to at times overshadow the rest of NT theology, that is, Romans. In 2 Cor 3:1-6, Paul is showing that he doesn’t need “letters of recomendation” to verify his apostolicity. The flesh and blood fruit of his labor is evidence enough to signify the ministry which Christ ordained for him to trailblaze. Obviously, Paul and his companions had made some heavily gospel-centered disciples. He speaks of them saying, “And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts (2 Cor 3:3).”

Paul’s ministry was an instrument by which the Spirit of Christ wrote the new covenant law of God’s kingdom upon the hearts of sinners (cf. Jer 31:33-34). This is in turn for Paul was further testimony that in all actuality, the one responsible for the supernatural transformation of these people was God in Christ. He claims, “Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God (2 Cor 3:5).” Therefore, a very real and sobering test of whether or not you are effectively conducting cross-centered relationships with real people is to simply reflect upon the fruit of your ministry in the lives of others. Now, this will look different for everyone. Paul does not get into specifics or numbers. Instead, he very boldy writes that his personal discipleship of others was productive insofar as the recipients of Paul’s ministry were exemplary “letters of recommendation,” that is, “letters of Christ”.

Being a former youth pastor and church worker for many years now, I’ve had an abundance of opportunities to write fleshly “books”. However, I have often not taken the time to mature those relationships, and in other times, I have been somewhat reclusive in my dealings towards others. If you read Card’s memoirs of Dr. Lane in The Walk, you will see a man who utterly spent himself on others in such a selfless and sacrificial way, that at times, it is overwhelming. So I ask you: Have you written any good “human books” lately? And if so, would they emanate the gospel to the point that they would qualify as “letters of Christ”? As many good ol’ Southern Baptist preachers often quote: The Shepherd always smells like the sheep!

“I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.”

~ John 10:14-15 ~